📄 3-416msg4.txt
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Subject: re : 3 . 408 adjunctre michael newman 's query and the response : in my english " when " be permissable as a rel . cl . marker and c . l . baker . 1989 . english syntax . explicitly say so on p . 238 . i do n't agree that any kind of elision have take place or that it be an adverbial clause of time . the problem if there be one be simply the collocation of the two word " time " and " when " which do n't sit comfortably together to the english ear . consider for acceptability : 1 ) i remember the first occasion when we play golf . the rejection of " when " in the sentence newman cite : 2 ) i do n't remember the first time when i play golf . be make not on structural or syntactic grounds but purely on the basis i suggest that " time " means " when " and thus sound awkward . on a scale of acceptability the follow sentence may lie twixt the other : 3 ) i remember the first day when i play golf . since day be less basically a word like " time " ( = mean when ) we may judge this as more acceptable . " that " be also perhap by choice the strongest marker in english of restrictiveness in rel . cl . and since that be what the function of these rel clause be to restrict the " day " or " time " we prefer " that " in a " formal " sense . as to the chain with " and " , i suspect that what those kind of sentence represent be : 4 ) i remember the first day when we play golf ( delete and ) that these noisy bugger come along and ruin our game . " and " be effectively introduce an np that . . . not another rel cl . lloyd holliday school of education la trobe university , melbourne edulh @ lure . latrobe . edu . au
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