5-1358msg1.txt

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Subject: snow 3 1 / 2

dear linguist , i ' ve be follow the discussion about snowy word here and elsewhere for some time now , and i can't but disagree with dougla j . glick ( see vol-5 - 1322 ) in two point . for one , i do n't find the discussion " relatively uninterest " . it be interest indeed to see what kind of idea about the issue as such and linguistics in general tonguester ( or be l . more p . c . ? : - ) put forward . it so happen that i encounter this nice passage in a book i buy a few day ago : wherea english [ . . . ] have only one word for _ snow _ ( or two if we include _ sleet _ ) , eskimo have several . trudgill ( 1974 ) : 27 this be a book write for the general audience , by a native speaker of english , who " have be a lecturer in the department of linguistic science at the university of read since 1970 " ( op . cit . ) , and it be twenty year old . but you sometime still hear assertion like the above , and i know the same thing from german speaker . still , in german we have at least schnee , schnee ( - mann , - regen , matsch ) , ( schnee ) flocke , neuschnee , harsch , waechte , lawine , loipe , hagel , graupel , and for english , snow , snow ( bank , fort , house , man , - mixed-with - rain , - flake , - storm ) , slush ( snow ) , ( snow ) cornice , avalanche , blizzard , dust , flurry , frost , hail , hardpack , igloo , pingo , powder , sleet . in these list , i ' m include some at least seemingly semantically transparent compound like neuschnee ( ` new + snow ' ) , schneeregen snow + rain ' ) and so on , as well as some word that be only frosty and not very snowy , as well as some that have only to do with snow and nothing else . in a serious collection , the datum should be much richer , in order to have a borderline between good and bid example fall well within the field , allow an assessment of the fuzzyness of this line , and , perhap , discover some model for the cognitive structure of the word in question . ( the datum for the english list be , apart from some edit , take from tony woodbury 's post ( see vol-5 - 1239 ) ) . grant not everything white in the listing give be snow , how can we comment on the quotation above ? at least , the writer should have tell the reader why so many snowy word of english do not count as snow , or , perhap , that eskimo in his opinion have no cover term , where english do have one . as it stand , however , it should make everybody very cautious about obtain datum of any language - - - include , obviously , their own - - - by way of secondary source . likewise , how much do the manymany ` fact ' draw from ` exotic ' ( i . e . , not very well document ) language count , which , for example , phonologist like to decorate their elaborate article with ? two , i do n't really get the point in exclude word like cornice from a snowy list . now if there be people out there who use the word primarily to denote some sort of snow formation and feel the word be in its * architectural * mean of rather metaphorical nature , what 's the point in tell them they ' re ` really ' wrong ? in german , waechte , flocke and harsch may very well be derive from some other morpheme . in fact , this only tell us eskimo be not very well document . i guess a lot of those word the hoax claim as semantically primitive would turn out much more connect to the rest of the vocabulary have we only the relative wealth of historical datum we have for the indoeuropean language . back to german again , flocke to me primarily denote not ` something flaky ' but rather precisely ` a snowflake ' , and all other usage seem to be derive from that . harsch seem to be connect with harsch ` harsh ' ; but use as a noun , what other denotation but that kind of slighly melt and freeze snow do it have ? loipe be the kind of track skier use in their discipline and , i guess , not a ` very german ' word - - - but disregard borrow word be just as silly as look down on adopt child . anyway , there seem to be a need for that word . it 's snowy , very specialize , and , for my feel , totally unconnect with any other word in german . of course i may be totally wrong ( and loipe be derive from ( skus ) laufen ` to run ( to ski ) ' ) . now there 's the point . linguist be look , on the one hand , into history to find out what really happen and try to extrapolate people 's mind to describe what 's really go on . if there 's someone with a lot of waechten and cornice and flake on his mind , but with no connection to other non-snowy word for him , this be a fact of that ideolect . of course , as soon some linguist come along and tell him the historical truth , behaviour and concept of the speaker may change . . . even if in fact it be some sort of folk-etymology he absorb when listen to the linguist : - ) . folk - etymology be there because it be a way we can imagine thing to be . . . so , what layer of this person 's brain be it that synchronic word count be claim to acount for , and how historical a derivation be allow or necessary in historical linguistics ? finally , i would like to point out that apart from some pretty specialize word have to do woth snow , rain be another phenomenon language may have more or less to say about . in german , for example , you have niesel and nieselregen , denote a very light rain or spray . there seem to be no other use or compound for this word apart from e nieselt , however , and no immediately relate , more basic word niesel could be say to be derive from . so , we have wasser , regen , niesel , and more . eskimo do n't appear that much outlandish any more , do it ? quotation take from : trudgill , peter : _ sociolinguistic : an introduction _ . penguin book . 1974 wolfgang lipp castor @ fub46 . zedat . fu-berlin . de i52023 @ sakura . kudpc . kyoto-u . ac . jp