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Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news.harvard.edu!noc.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!atfurmanFrom: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)Newsgroups: talk.politics.gunsSubject: Re: The Cold War: Who REALLY Won?Message-ID: <79943@cup.portal.com>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 22:48:23 PDTOrganization: The Portal System (TM)References:  <1993Apr20.220335.9235@linus.mitre.org>Lines: 51>If one reasons that the United States of America at one time represented >and protected freedom << individual liberty and personal responsibility >> >(and I do, in fact, think that this is true) and that totalitarianism << >absolute government control and tyranny >> represents freedom's opposite >(which it does), did the USA really win the cold war?>>Standard disclaimers ALWAYS apply!>>---------------->Graham K. Glover>----------------The Cold War has not ended.  The only thing that has happened is that the two sides have exchanged roles.The USA has a higher imprisonment rate (400 per 100,000 population)than any country in Europe by a factor of 10 or so.  In California,it is over 600 per 100,000 population.  The prison population inCalifornia is now over 100,000, a quadrupling since 1980.  Most ofthese inmates were convicted under the drug prohibition laws.  Policenow confiscate property, without trial, under a "good faith probablecause" standard, in the name of depriving the horrible ghastly drugdealers of their ill-gotten gains.  Conduct an opinion poll, and amajority will answer "yes" if you ask them whether civil liberties anddue process should be diluted in order to Send Our Young People TheMessage That We Are Serious About Winning The War On Drugs.  I don'tknow whether anyone has measured such a figure among gun owners, butI would expect the same result.  They certainly seem to vote that way.According to Jack Herer's book _The Emperor Wears No Clothes_, overTWELVE MILLION YEARS of prison time have been served under themarijuana prohibition laws, by people who were minding their ownbusiness and causing no harm to others (and less harm to themselvesthan users of tobacco, with 400,000 confirmed kills/year).  Underthe "War on Drugs" campaign of "zero tolerance" due process protectionshave eroded, and mandatory sentences of ten years without parole haveproliferated.  By and large, gun owners have voted for the politicianswho favor such measures.  And now, all the precedents--not onlylegal, but political:  "My fellow Americans, we must send our youngpeople the message that we are serious about winning the War OnMurder"--are going to be applied to the oncoming wave of gunprohibition laws.  Gun owners are about to get a taste of the medicinethey voted for believing it would be used only on those with differenttastes in recreational drugs.What goes around comes around.    Alan T. Furman         | Don't blame me -- I voted Libertarian---------------------------+----------------------------------------  atfurman@cup.portal.com  |   (800)682-1776 for more information

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