rfc77.txt

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                       n c1 c2 ...cn

where 1 <= n <= 120   (n is eight bits)

and if ci is an "end of line" character then i = n

This suggestion was not immediately accepted and some discussion took
place regarding the significance of Host-Imp-Host message boundaries.
Doug brought up file transmission and the problem of finding the end of
the file, which provoked more discussion.  At this point the meeting
broke up with a third session scheduled for 8:00 p.m. Wednesday evening.

The Wednesday meeting began with the suggestion that at future xJCC's
there be an official ARPA Network hotel with a block of rooms on one
floor and a nearby meeting room for networkers.  This suggestion was
favored by all.

Steve Crocker asked how people felt about these meetings.  The general
feeling was that the meetings were very useful and should occur about 3
months apart.  Al Vezza pointed out that meetings this size (15 - 30
people) are good for bringing up problems but not for putting them down.
Steve proposed that 3 or 4 people be designated to solve particular
problems.  Al responded that 3 people can't legislate.  That any such



J. Postel                                                       [Page 5]

RFC 77                   Network Meeting Report         20 November 1970


solution must be considered in the same way as a proposal by an
individual.

Steve persuaded Peggy Karp to act as NWG/RFC editor.  This is a job
independent of cataloging RFC's or assigning numbers (functions now
performed by NIC).  The RFC editor will only categorize RFC as "hot
issues", current, out of date, or superseded.

The subject of Logger protocol -- that is, how to get the first
connection -- needs to be officially defined.  NWG/RFC #66 suggests one
way.  Eric Harslem will revise this and send it out as proposed official
protocol.  Ed Myer will also send out a proposal.

Steve then opened up discussion of the topics of the previous meeting by
suggesting we talk about the following: Message boundaries, half duplex
vs.  ull duplex, line oriented vs. character oriented, file
transmission, byte counts in messages, byte sizes and transactional
units.  It was proposed that transactions on the command link (i.e.
between NCP's) be always in multiples of eight bits.  This mean that the
length field in the ECO, ERP, and ERR commands will always have three
low order zeroes.  This was approved.  Steve then proposed that
connections could be established with a declared byte size and a maximum
record length in bytes.  Transactional units on this type of connection
would be of the form

                  n c1 c2 c3 ... cn

where 0 <= n <= max record length

if n = 0 then the transactional unit acts like a semaphore.  Steve
suggested that we should look into the theory of information exchange,
particularly along the lines of Richard Kaline (NWG/RFC #60).  Perhaps
for each information unit sent there should be some status response.

The next question was on file transmission.  In particular, how do you
find the end?  Frank Heart suggested that with each portion there be a
flag indicating "this is not the end" until in the last portion the flag
is switched to indicate "this is the end".  Eric Harslem suggested that
each portion should have an "opcode" field, a length field, and the text
which is length bits (bytes?) long.  This appears to be like the data
types proposed at the Lincoln Lab meeting last spring.  Ed Myer proposed
that two connections be used, one for the file transmission and the
other to control it.  The file control connection would specify the data
connection and indicate that transmission as about to start.  After the
sender had completed the file transmission he would send on the file
control link the total number of bits sent.  The receiver would then
know how many bits to receive and exactly where the end of the file
should be.  Bob Metcalfe was concerned that some of the proposals mixed



J. Postel                                                       [Page 6]

RFC 77                   Network Meeting Report         20 November 1970


control information with data and felt that perhaps this mixing should
be avoided.

Steve asked if anybody could suggest an advisor we might talk about
these problems.  Bob Metcalfe suggested Anatol Holt.  Bob Sundberg
suggested George Mealy.  Eric Harslem and Peggy Karp suggested that
people who worked on the COIN System might be helpful.  Frank Heart
suggested that no one has solved these problems.

Steve proposed that Service Centers offer line oriented interaction with
no echoing of the input.  Any simple editing (e.g. back space) would be
done at the using site.  Ed Meyer suggested that there be official
protocols for both line oriented and character oriented interaction.
Steve promised to write a NWG/RFC clarifying the issues and laying out
the arguments on full transactions, byte counts, and accumulating data
on the receive side.

It was felt that these were hard problems that needed more thought.
Thus the meeting was adjourned with the request that people circulate
any ideas or proposals as NWG/RFC's.  Ed Myer took notes and agreed to
also prepare a NWG/RFC summarizing these meetings.






























J. Postel                                                       [Page 7]

RFC 77                   Network Meeting Report         20 November 1970


        Network Meeting Attendance List 16 - 18 Nov. 70 Houston

Name                       Site                   Sessions

 1. Dick Benjamin          MITRE                      1

 2. Jack Bouknight         Illinois - CAC             1,2

 3. Al Cocanower           MERIT                      1,3

 4. Steve Crocker          UCLA - SPADE               1,2,3

 5. Doug Engelbart         SRI - ARC                  1,2,3

 6. Wayne Fischer          MERIT                      3

 7. Richard Greenblatt     MIT - AI                   1

 8. Eric Harslem           RAND                       1,2,3

 9. Frank Heart            BBN                        1,2,3

10. Allen Joseph           ORNL                       1

11. Peggy Karp             MITRE                      1,2,3

12. William Kehl           UCLA - CCN                 1

13. Bob Long               SDC                        1,2,3

14. Jim Madden             Illinois - CAC             1,2

15. Bob Metcalfe           MIT - DM                   1,3

16. Edwin Myer             MIT Multics                1,2,3

17. Ari Ollikainen         UCLA - SPADE               1,2,3

18. Tom O'Sullivan         Raytheon                   1,2,3

19. Jon Postel             UCLA - SPADE               1,2,3

20. Chris Reeve            MIT - DM                   1,3








J. Postel                                                       [Page 8]

RFC 77                   Network Meeting Report         20 November 1970


        Network Meeting Attendance List 16 - 18 Nov. 70 Houston

Name                       Site                   Sessions

21. Tijaart Schipper       UCLA - CCN                 1

22. Michael Sher           Illinois - CAC             1

23. Bob Sundberg           Harvard                    1,2,3

24. Hal Van Zoeren         CMU                        1,2,3

25. Albert Vezza           MIT - DM                   1,2,3

26. Alfred Vorhaus         MITRE                      1

27. Clark Weissman         SDC                        1






       [ This RFC was put into machine readable form for entry ]
       [ into the online RFC archives by Gottfried Janik 02/98 ]


























J. Postel                                                       [Page 9]